Join us for an important conversation about breaking through aging denial with Mary Ann Buckley and Sharon Peska, directors and care managers at Corewood Care, who bring nearly fifty years of combined experience working with older adults and families! Hosted by Nirvana Tari, Chief Patient Officer at CareYaya.
In this refreshingly candid episode, Mary Ann reveals why she tells families to put on her glasses and really see their parents (noticing the shuffle in mom's walk, the stack of unpaid bills, the spoiled food she insists is fine, the same shirt worn twice in a row), while Sharon tackles why adult children have become adults but parents still see them as children who couldn't possibly understand medical care navigation. Discover why help is treated like a four letter word people recoil from, the power of normalizing that we all need assistance (Sharon helps Mary Ann with technology, after all), and why planning for aging means accepting that aging changes us rather than clinging to the myth of lifelong independence.
From the art of planting seeds slowly rather than building brick walls (don't start heavy conversations during Jeopardy), to why being in control actually means giving trusted people your information before crisis strikes (no power of attorney means you're truly out of control when hospitalized), these sister social workers offer pragmatic wisdom wrapped in warmth. Learn why calling mom every Sunday at seven means she knows the routine and can mask decline (try Monday at nine instead), the red flags of self neglect and excessive hoarding that cannot be ignored, and how technology from picture frames uploading grandkids' soccer photos to Amazon Echo drop ins keeps isolated older adults connected.
Key insights include why you need to be a detective observing nuances because most people don't age fine one day and failing the next, the critical importance of asking how can I help as a simple conversation starter, why issues with numbers (checks written for twelve hundred instead of one twenty, showing up at two for a four o'clock appointment) signal cognitive decline rather than normal aging, the value of volunteering or giving help releasing good brain chemicals (so let others help you for their sake), and Mary Ann's knockout reminder that if you don't give your children information because you want control, you're actually relinquishing all control when emergencies happen.
Brought to you by CareYaya, America's number one rated solution for in-home senior care, providing industry-leading quality care at the most affordable rates. CareYaya is known especially for delivering the most reliable and affordable overnight senior care and 24/7 care in many major metro areas including Atlanta, Boston, San Francisco, and Washington D.C.
This episode is essential for adult children watching parents slowly decline while hearing I'm fine, I don't need help, sandwich generation caregivers drowning in responsibilities who need permission to ask for and accept support themselves, anyone gathering with family over holidays ready to plant those first gentle seeds, or families paralyzed by sibling disagreement about how much support mom and dad actually need. Happy National Family Caregiver Month to everyone navigating the impossible balance of respecting independence while ensuring safety. And in case you forgot: Communication, communication, communication!
Episode Transcript:
Good morning and welcome to The Care Plan. My name is Nirvana Tari and today I am joined with the wonderful Sharon Peska and Mary Ann Buckley from Corwood Care, two directors that are joining us today to have an invigorating conversation. Good morning, ladies. How are y'all doing today? Great. Thank you. Good. Thank you for having us. Yeah. I'm so excited for this conversation. It's the perfect way to kick off the holiday season. And yeah, I'm just looking forward to chatting and getting to know you guys a little bit better. Thank you. We're going to go ahead and hop right in with our lightning round questions. So for this one, we're going to try and see, do you guys want to go back and forth for each one? Or do you guys both want to answer the lightning rounds? I think we're both going to answer some of the lightning round. Yeah. Awesome. Let's do it. Okay. So my first one for you is, what is the biggest red flag that it's time for professional support? I think when older adults are refusing any type of care or support or services from the adult children, I think that's a red flag. When the older adult children are noticing it, but the parents are saying no, no, no. I think the one thing we can't ignore is self-neglect. When it's due to dementia or an illness or something and our older adult family members are wanting to keep people at bay and in essence are really self-neglecting and that we can't have that. And then a good or another red flag for us, if there's family disagreement, you know, we are care managers and we have this profession because a lot of our clients, families are in such disagreement what mom or dad or mom and dad need that the children can't kind of come together and make that happen. And sometimes professional support is what they need. Absolutely. I'll let Sharon give you her red flags. Yeah. So a big red flag is also for when a spouse is caring for the other spouse and is worn out and they just really are exhausted because caregiving for a loved one is a huge responsibility. So that's a big red flag. And also, if there's excessive hoarding, you know, everybody has their definition or collections and what they're able, what they're okay with. But when it gets to be where it's excessive and someone is not able to navigate their space, that is another big red flag. Yeah, totally. Love those answers. All right. Lightning round. Next question. What's the most overlooked aspect of aging planning? I think the whole idea of moving everything about the move is ignored. I think I used to tell Sharon if I had a nickel every time. Somebody said, I'm never going to move from my house. You know, I'm a rich woman. So the whole idea of moving, the actual move, the where do I move, where will I fit in in this move? You know, if I move out of my house, where will I fit in and form friendships? Yeah. And then the actual move, who am I going to give my ten boxes of china to? These are all things, though, that really get in the way of an older adult and really gets them stuck. Absolutely. There's so many moving pieces that go into it. Yeah. Sharon, any thoughts? Yeah. Realizing that one day you're going to need help because, you know, all of us love to be independent as, you know, human beings. And, you know, we like that independence. We like to be able to say we can do things on our own, but there is a time where we do have to ask for help. So that's a big one. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. Next one, moving on. We got, what should every adult child know about their parents' wishes? I think the one thing for me is just to realize, number one, they do have wishes, but they may change over time. So what your parent might have said, I always want this, you know, that could change either by their friend making a move or something happened to somebody else or whatever. Just kind of make sure you kind of go with the flow and it's okay to check in with them. You know, mom, you always said you never wanted this, but your feeling because we've seen that with our clients that that things change over time they may change their mind so absolutely any thoughts on that um yeah don't be afraid to talk to your parents or your loved ones um you know it's better to know what to expect versus being surprised it's it's really um important and um it's good to have that conversation Absolutely. A hundred percent. And then if each of you could give me just one question that opens the floodgates, but in a good way. Well, this has worked for me. I have a ninety six year old mom and Sharon's eighty five. So not only is it personal, but it's also professional what we're doing. I think saying to your parents that. If you are their power of attorney, that's a great way to start this conversation. If you're not, you're of course their children, just to say, as I'm your power of attorney, your adult child, I need to know what you want. I need to know what you don't want. I kind of like to throw that one in. I need to know what concerns you. I want to be in saying, I want to be the best advocate for you. So I need to know these things because I will be there for you. but give me the information, you know, let's have that conversation so that I can be the best advocate POA adult child for you. But you need to share that information with me. Love that one. Sharon, you have a question for us? Yeah. How can I help? You know, that's perfect. Sweet. Like just really saying mom, dad, aunt, uncle, friend, How can I help you? I want to be able to help you. So like just asking it in a simple way is a great conversation starter. An offer of support. I love it. And then for this one, if we could fill in the blank with one word and we'll wrap up our lightning round. So planning for aging is really about how you want to live the rest of your life. Um, and I'm just going to add one more thing to that is, um, accepting, I think we talked about this earlier, but it bears repeating accepting that aging changes us. We have to, and how are we going to make the best of it? That's so beautiful. I love that. Um, and I would say planning for aging is really about taking control rather than avoiding it. Yeah. And embracing this chapter. We all go through different journeys at different times throughout our lives. It's really about taking ownership for what's going on at this time with this present current situation and how can we work with that? Totally, totally. And that's such a... I'm glad that you bring that up as well because a lot of the times just taking that step can be really, really scary. But... not knowing is even scarier. So yeah, it's definitely like being able to take control while you can have that control is really, really important. Um, well, we met a few weeks back to discuss this podcast and kind of how we're going to get together and talk. And I just could not imagine not recording this with the both of you at the same time. The chemistry that you guys have between each other, just like the way that you guys speak about each other and to each other. I have not stopped thinking about it since, um, I know. Yeah. I want to be right there in the middle of that hug. But you guys just kind of gave me so much energy and made me realize that, wow, like your work is really like who you're doing it with and the people that like surround you. But that being said, you guys have, you know, between the two of you almost fifty years of experience working with older adults and families. And you can definitely, please definitely also touch upon your relationship and friendship as well. But what is the biggest mistake that you see families make when it comes to aging? I think for me over the years, it's been that adult children don't really see their parents as they really are. And I don't know whether that's a little bit of denial or just that mom always cooks Sunday dinner. And you just assume that you're going to come on Sunday with your kids now and mom's still cooking Sunday dinner. So over the years, I've actually had a thought in my mind that I go in as a professional, as a social worker, as a Sharon to meet an older adult and do an assessment. And I see things, because that's my line of work, differently than the adult children. Sometimes I've often thought, what can I do? put on my glasses. See? No, but it's like, see your parents a little bit clearer. Did you notice the last time you were visiting, did mom have that little bit of a shuffle gate to her? You know what I mean? Or did you notice, this time that mom is actually wearing the same shirt that she was wearing the last time you came to see her. So it's these small nuances, because most of us don't age like we're fine one day and the next day we're all good. So kind of knowing those nuances, if you see stacks of mail and your mom was, you know, so... precise about doing bills and now you're seeing a stack of bills or you go to get something to eat at your mom's house and you go in and you notice there's a lot of spoiled food in there, but she tells you, no, no, it's okay. It's fine. I'm going to clean it out one of these days, you know, it's those kinds of things. Just, being honest and really, you know, you kind of have to be, you have to be an observer. Sometimes you have to be a little bit of a detective to kind of look at all those things. Is mom and dad repeating themselves? You know what I mean? Is mom listening to the TV at level fifty or sixty? She's not hearing it. You know, all those things that you could help with or make suggestions to make sure life is better and easier for them but you have to really notice things yeah put on your glasses and look at them specifically put on mary ann's glasses and look at them Or Sharon's. Or Sharon's. Sharon, do you have anything to add there? Yes. So I'm agreeing with what Mary Ann said. In addition to that, also to recognize that children turn into adults. And those adult children a lot of times are willing, able, and wanting to help their parents. Yes. Parents still look at their children as children and not as the adults that they are and that, you know, adult children can really help and advise and. you know, do the things that, you know, when we're younger, we can't do, but you know, those adult children get older, we can, we can help them. And, you know, it's interesting, Marianne and I are both social workers. We're both care managers and, And we both have our moms who live out of state, actually. And when I suggest something to my mom about different issues with her medical care, she's like, well, I'm going to ask the doctor. And I said, well, I can help you also because I know how these things work from my professional background and I can provide assistance. And if I couldn't provide that assistance, I would find a way to get that assistance. It's good for those for for children to be able to help and for the adult parents, you know, for the parents to be able to say, you know what, my son and daughter really can help me. Yeah. And my way to get around that with my mom is like, mom, you know, I had three children and she helped after the birth with each one of the children. I needed her. You know what I mean? It's like sometimes we have to help our older adults to say, you remember that time, you know, when I had this issue and you came to help me? Or do you remember when you and dad drove whatever when I was in college and you helped me? It's like, this is... This is what we do as a family. I always try to think of ways to normalize it because we're so prideful and we always want our independence as we age. But it's time. Yeah. And Sharon. I see that the point that you were making earlier, Sharon, I see that all the time here as well, where it's the difficulty of. You know, accepting that the person that you brought into this world and raised is not taking care of you when, you know, it's your role and duty as a parent to take care of them. It's that reversal can be really small and understandably so, you know. But I really do think that these just these little like tips and pieces of advice can kind of like help with. easing the transition and allowing for the conversations to at least get started because that's not part of it all probably is just starting the conversation. This whole episode is kind of going to be about like planning and how to actually plan and how to be prepared. But why is it that you guys think that people avoid planning for aging when just like as a society, we plan for literally everything else in our lives? Gosh, I wish I knew in a way. No, I mean, I'm being serious about that because certainly, but we have met, we call, we actually call them planners, you know, we have over the years of my clients and that are the planners that really, you know, want to make plans for the future. I think if I had to ask for the rest of the folks, I think it just depends on, I think it lies in the fact that we think we're going to be independent the rest of our lives. We don't want any help. I once did a presentation on why is help a four-letter word. I give it to senior living communities. Like, why is that word a four-letter word? Why do you, like, recoil when I say you need some help? I don't need any help. You know, we all need help. Let's normalize that. We all need help. Sharon helps me with technology. I can't do that on my own. You know what I mean? So I think it's that, um, I don't know the real answer. It's still something to be pondered, but people think that this stage, they don't want to realize they're going to need help. Their health might change. Their memory might change. all those things and it's it's i think it's fear-based i guess to sum it up yeah no i can write a thesis on this yes yeah i mean because i think it's a stigma that people feel when you are asking for help that that's a bad thing and we need to change that you know, that conversation and say, no, I want to help and I can help. And what can I do to help? Um, that is where, you know, if you just change the way you think about that, say, you know, asking for help is a good thing. And, um, maybe things I could be more independent or, um, be able to do more things if I did get help from someone. yeah i've actually quoted some not quoted quoted but i've actually told my mom that i've done research and really um and this was my mom volunteered so much during her lifespan and when you volunteer or you give help to somebody it releases the good chemicals in your brain so i've told her over the years mom do you want to help my brain chemistry because if i help you it'll help my brain chemistry yeah Sometimes with clients, I go back and ask, like when we're doing an assessment, what's your religious or spiritual background? What that is. And then I might ask them in your church or synagogue or mosque, how is help viewed? Oh, we give help to each other and they can quote things. And it's like, okay, well, then somebody has to be the receiver of that help. Trying to receive that help and accepting that help helps the other person. So there's lots of ways that we try to work around that resistance to help. That's really beautiful because it's just really about meeting people where they're at, right? At the end of the day, connecting to them on a level, finding that one thing that you can sort of like extrapolate from and be like, okay, like, here's how this would actually apply to your life. Like put yourself like in my shoes. Like, how did you... Yeah, I really like that framing of it. That's really, really helpful. We get by with a little help from our friends. Yeah. I have a bad thing. I should have. That should have been the title of the podcast. Come on, Marianne. Should have told me that earlier. um so yeah like i guess like staying on that train of thought of planning for aging what does getting prepared sort of like really look like like you i think this is like a good time to talk about this as well because with the holidays coming up people are going to be spending time with their families and um this is kind of like a good time to start getting that ball rolling so maybe what's that first step that they take or what does getting prepared really look like in this regard I think just, you know, it is having the conversation. And I think for adult children, depending on their parents, you have to start slow. You have to, I mean, over the years, I've heard adult children have called wanting help for their parents, excuse me. And they've said, you know, every night when I go over at seven o'clock and that's when I'm off from work and I go to talk to my mom or dad or something, they don't want to talk about it. I'm like, okay, what's on TV? Oh, Jeopardy, their favorite show. And I'm like, okay. You know, so my response is find the right moment, a quiet moment, learn where that quiet moment is and have that conversation. It's like, mom, I just want to start this conversation. I told Sharon that for years I've talked to adult children and care managers alike. We're just sowing seeds initially. For some folks, you have to be gentle. You know, you have to be mindful and cognizant that this is a big topic that they fear, they're in denial about or whatever. So start slow, but have it. Make sure it's on their time. Make sure it's a good time for them. They're not tired. They're not eating their lunch or, you know, whatever it is that you would think that they wouldn't want to talk about it and just normalize it as best as you can. I've been known to say to my mother, and of course, hopefully she's not watching. I told her, no, I'm serious. I told her like, oh mom, you know, I have this friend of mine and she's got a mom and her mom's widowed and she wants her daughter to help her. And I was like, oh, well maybe this or that. You know what I mean? And then you have to try things. Yeah. Because, I mean, unless you're out in the field with resistant older adults, you know, you are a witness to this. I often think it's as if I've come back to the office as if somebody built a brick wall while I was talking to them. I mean, I can visualize that brick wall. Yep. So you have to sow seeds, start gently, and begin to talk about it. Other parents, I'm sure, are fine with it, but you just need to know. I love that. No, but that's so true. Sharon said, ditto everything. Well, you can just go like this when you want. Time out, Miriam. It's all about baby steps. It's not going from zero to a hundred and like, you know, Saying, okay, time to move. It's about taking them where they are, having those initial conversations, seeing what they're thinking about, maybe opening up and giving suggestions and seeing how that goes. And then stop. Because this is not something, unless it's a crisis or unless it's an emergency, that you have to do right away. Planting seeds. I love it. It's a great way of conceptualizing it as well and visualizing it. You've got to take care of those seeds after you plant them in order to see what they turn into. Absolutely. know we're kind of like talking about this whole like the importance of sharing information with your family and things like that um but maybe share with our audience a little bit more what specific information is it that older adults need to be able to communicate and maybe if you have any insults insights on why it's so difficult for them to do so sometimes i think that um I think that a lot of times, you know, as we age, that we feel that we're going to continue on that path. And no one likes to think of the what ifs. You know, what if I fall? What if I have a stroke? What if I have a break? Those kinds of things, we don't like to think about it, but it is important to think about because the more you are prepared ahead of those what ifs, the better off we are because preparation is really what's key. And just to say, oh, telling your family, oh, my primary care doctor's name is Dr. Blank. Right. My cardiologist doctor's name is Dr. Blank. Having those just having those things written down and that information be able to have. access to your family members, power of attorneys, friends, whoever you trust, is really what is important. Because you don't know what's going to happen. And it really can happen. It's interesting. I have a background in rehab. And people would say, the therapists would say, oh, Mr. Blank is a fall risk. Everyone's a fall risk. everybody is a fall risk. I don't care what your age is, everybody is a fall risk. It's just better to be prepared with whatever information you can have ahead of time. Totally. Absolutely. Did you want to add anything to that, Ms. Marianne? I think what I've One of my big takeaways from doing this work for as long as I have is that all the years of people not wanting to share information with their adult children because they want to be in control and there's that word again, right? And I thought about that and I just thought if you don't give your children the information Or you don't, you don't name them power of attorney, you know? Um, and certainly I've worked with great attorneys over the years and stuff. You are really out of control. Let's say a medical power of attorney and your mom or dad gets sick and they go into the hospital. There's no power of attorney and things like that. You're really less in control. I think what I've been teaching people over the years is that to be in control means to give the key people in your life who you trust that's the big um that information so that you can make sure your needs are met you can make sure if you're in the hospital or assurance and rehab if you have to pay your rent or mortgage you don't because you didn't expect a bad fall or things like that so at any time give you the people you trust whether it's not your children or your niece or nephew, whoever it is, that information so that they can number one, help. Thank you. And have the, have the necessary things they need. Love it. It's plain and simple. It's just communication is key and it's, you know, again, breaking that wall down and making sure that, um, you're taking it day by day and not just like opening the floodgates and making both sides uncomfortable with the conversation. in gears a little bit into what it is that you guys do. So a lot of people might not really even know what a care manager is or actually does. So maybe walk us through how, you know, what like a day in the life looks like and, you know, how you are, how specifically you're helping families prepare for aging in place. Yeah. So, yeah, as a care manager, it's a busy day and there's never a dull moment. Being a care manager is a twenty four hour, seven day a week job because it is you never know what's going to happen. Things can be very stable with a client, and then all of a sudden, as I said before, something can happen. So as a care manager, it really is taking a holistic view of what a person is going through, what a person needs, and helping with that view and saying, okay, First, we're going to start like helping getting you organized with your doctor's appointments. Appointments are necessary and which ones we can put, you know, maybe a few months down the road. Those things organized, helping you get a calendar of all of those things that you're doing and what you need to do. Because in my mind, I'm all about trying to to take out all that. that's extra space that's in your head and you know when you get anxious that causes anxiety when you don't know what's going on and how to help and so by having things organized and saying okay on tuesday i have this doctor and on wednesday i have that doctor so that at least you're able to know what's going on and so a care manager can really can come in and help you with that organizational piece Right. Totally. And also like help you organize your surroundings and say, okay, this is where, this is where we need to improve. If you have rugs that are on the floor that need to be moved, because those are, those are safety hazards, furniture that needs to be moved, doing all of those things, a care manager can really come in and help. So A care manager is a wonderful person who can really come in and and take a look at everything that's going on and help you navigate it. Yeah. Organizing the physical space and the mental space, like because if things are getting jumbled up there, it can get so overwhelming and that there is. Let's get it down on paper. Like, what is it that you actually need to get done? Let's prioritize, let's triage and figure out like, is this actually a burning fire that we need to attend to? Or is it just like freaking you out in the moment and it can be dealt with a little bit later on. But yeah, it's, I mean, and also I do want to give a quick shout out to every single one of the family caregivers that are out there listening to this right now or not listening to it because they are busy doing their caregiving duties. who are important. Your work matters so much. And you genuinely make the world go around because without you guys, I don't even want to imagine what the situation would be like. But I also want to wish everyone a very, very happy National Family Caregivers Month as well because I know that we're wrapping up on November, but every single day is National Family Caregiver Day in my mind. Um, oh my goodness. I have so many questions left to ask, but I got to pick and choose because we are running out of time and we already have quite a few audience questions coming in, which I'm really excited about. Um, okay. Let's do this one. I like this one. Um, isolation and loneliness are real epidemics for older adults right now. We're seeing it every day. Right. Um, so how do we, how do you guys help families stay connected and engaged, especially when they're aging in place? I think a lot of it can be technology. Just to give an example, a couple of years ago, we bought my mom one of those picture frames. So we are always sending pictures of our grandchildren, her great grandchildren. And so they're at the soccer field or the swim meet or they're cheerleading or whatever they are. We're there and then upload it. And then the next day we talked to my mom. We're like, oh, so and so did a great job at soccer. And my mom says, oh, yeah, I know. I saw them on the frame. So, I mean, that's helping her in real time or pretty close to it and see the pictures on the frame. I think it's also certainly the phone calls, the visits, the being mindful of that and trying to get family members together or reminding the adult children to make the visits if we were the care manager or who else in their life. You know, I've been known to call religious communities to say, is there somebody, you know, your parishioner, whoever moved into this senior community, is there anybody that could go visit her once a month or something like that? It's like we're always trying to look and how we can kind of connect people and keep them connected. keep them engaged and do the things that they like to do because we do need to, I know me and my siblings, we talk to my mom a couple of times a day, not each one, I mean, each one of us at different times of the day. That's really, really great. And again, what's the number one piece of technology that all of our older adults know and love and can use with confidence? The telephone. So, yeah, and we all got a little one of those in our pockets. So sometimes it's just as easy as picking up the phone and saying, hey, how's your day going? Yeah, that's it. Any thoughts on this one, Sharon? Yeah, I mean, I think technology is great. You know, you have things like not that I'm plugging this, but, you know, you have Amazon Echoes. You have ways that you can do a drop in feature. So if you buy one of those and they're not really expensive, you can do a drop-in so you can say, hi mom, hi dad, and they don't have to press anything. It just has to be plugged in and you can just check in on them. I know for myself, I do volunteer services for a community where I call people I call a older adult once a week. We have a scheduled time every Monday at seven and I call him and he looks forward to it and so do I. And it's just a wonderful way for us to connect um and so you know by doing that um and also i have to give props out also to communities if someone is having you know a lot of loneliness a lot of isolation that's where communities and adult daycare can really come in handy because um you know that is where the activities happen and you know If someone in their past had, you know, played bridge or Mahjong or, you know, any of those things, these communities have that. And it really helps you connect with other people and to not be as lonely and isolated as you might have been at one point in time. Absolutely. Totally. And, you know, I love that you mentioned that earlier of the weekly phone calls that you do. course you do you're such an angel um but it's so we see that in with at kiriaya as well intergenerational relationships are so ridiculously valuable um you know whether it's one generation apart or five generations apart like is just one of some of the most beautiful relationships that you can witness because there's so much learning and teaching done from both sides uh you know it doesn't get more mutually beneficial than that. And it's so beautiful to kind of see like, you know, a nineteen, twenty year old talking to a ninety five, ninety six year old like it's yeah, just being a witness to these relationships like forming and truly becoming a part of routine and like day to day life is an honor and a privilege for sure. um i again we are going a little bit over time um so i'm gonna go ahead and pivot into i think i might have to have you ladies come back for a follow-up podcast in twenty twenty six i yeah maybe we make this a series once a month i'm just kidding um maybe just a little bit don't tempt us Hey, I'll write up the contract. I'll send it over right now. But I'm going to go ahead and pivot into our audience questions. And then I will come back and do my final wrap up question at the end there. So we have one here that's asking, oh, thank you for your insights. Yes, absolutely. Thank you for your insights. As a child of a parent in the sandwich generation, what is the best way to open up the conversation to them regarding the aging of their parents and how to plan for the future? Does that make sense? No. Okay, no, I get it. It's so, okay. We have a child, maybe like a twenty-year-old child, younger siblings, that their parent is still taking care of. But that twenty-year-old's parent is taking care of their own parents at the same time as well. That twenty-year-old child support their parents in the aging of their own grandparents. Does that make sense? um that's a good question um i think that um i think that you know like what marianne and i were talking about before it's all about the planting the seeds and the baby steps i think that um you know taking a look at what's going on around you and how what things need to be fixed kind of on a, on a not an emergent basis, but somewhat in a, in a more sooner rather than later. And then the, And then going from there, that is happening a lot where you do have, you know, the twenty year old, the grandparents, you know, and then the parents and navigating all of those pieces. That's where a care manager will really come in and help because that really is a lot for someone to take on. And that's where a care manager can be really, really helpful. Yeah, totally. Did you have anything to add to that, Marianne? Um, I do. I think, I think, um, Sharon and I are both sandwiched, um, generation, although I'm a lot older than her. Uh, no, I'm kidding. Age is just a number. There we go. And also aging is a privilege. Yeah, that's true. But we both see that, uh, with our kids. And I know, um, I've been going to Ohio the past year or so quite often to help um take care of my mom or look in on her and stuff i think number one i think that's a good role model for me to be for my children that you know this is how this is what family means to me to take care of your elders and things like that but i think it's also okay to the younger children to give them that guidance or that suggestion that you share, but sometimes I'll say to my kids, you know, your grandmother would really love a phone call. It doesn't have to be a long time. She's got breathing issues, but just a quick phone call, just, you know, surprise her, make her day, talk about this, that, or the other. I think that's, that's a great thing to do to suggest to the younger people that And then, of course, I know my children, I don't know about yours yet, but mine are acutely aware that I might turn into my mother and be extremely resistant to care. Although I've promised them that I won't because I've already gotten this job. But it's just, you know, suggesting. And it's all about asking, right? If you don't ask... You won't know. You won't know. You won't get the help. You won't, you know, but we need to stay connected. Yeah, totally. We have to ask for help. Absolutely. Being specific about the help. Right, right. That's been helpful is my mom has had issues and things to be very specific. Don't come in with all ten of the grandkids. It's too much for her work. come in with something, boy, she really likes a good blueberry muffin. You know what I mean? It's like you're helping them. My mom's going to love it and they're going to be the hero bringing in the blueberry muffin. You know what I mean? Kind of giving them ideas. That's great. That's really, really great. I like that. I like both of those answers a lot. This question is kind of going back to something Marianne said a little bit earlier, but relating to what Marianne said about paying attention to the details, is there a way we can do this remotely if we don't live with our parents or grandparents? Like how you were saying like, oh, you know, you notice them wearing the same shirt or, you know, their fridges have been cleaned out. But do you have any thoughts or ideas on how this can be done remotely if you're not in the same physical locations? I think the only way you could do that is if you FaceTime, you know what I mean? Yes, you can to FaceTime, but I think some of those things are so, would be difficult. I mean, you wouldn't even say, mom, go open up your refrigerator for me. You know, when you FaceTime, things like that, it might be. And that's why people, I mean, that's why people call their managers, you know, for help. Feet on the ground, the boots on the ground. I had a woman, this was years ago, called and said, you know, my mom's in the hospital. They recommend a care manager. I think she's fine. And she told me what happened. And I said, boy, it sounds like she's got some memory loss. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. She doesn't have memory loss. I said, OK, you seem awfully certain about that, which is fine. But can you tell me why? And she said, no, you know, every I call her once a week and she's fine. OK, when do you call her? Every Sunday night at seven o'clock. okay and what does she tell you that she's fine I'm like okay well she knows the routine right every Sunday night at seven you're gonna call why don't you try calling her Monday at nine you know let's let's change it up a bit and see what you get is she awake or is she still in bed or you know what I mean things like that you have to be you have to um be more proactive about Yeah, and try to get the whole picture. And by varying things up, it happened that her mom, according to the hospital, diagnosed her with dementia. So she did have it. And we helped her, which is fine. And I think also by, you know, asking, this is where, again, asking for help, but asking a friend or a family member, maybe of the person, you know, if the older adult has friends who can check in on one another and then saying, oh, can you click? Can you tell me how mom's fridge looks? Can you tell me how her environment, her family room looks? Does mom look okay to you when you see her in person? Asking friends to really come in if you're out of state, out of the country, that's where you bring in your teams. right they can really help um village it really does the village it takes i love that you guys have been touching on community during this whole time as well because at the end of the day like people are social creatures and we need our communities we need our villages we need our support systems in order to get through the different stages of life and transitioning through those um But we have a couple more questions from the audience. So bear with me. Thank you all so much for this info. I had a quick question. How do I know if my parent is experiencing loneliness or early signs of cognitive decline versus just normal aging? When should I be concerned? What's normal and what's not? No, I think you should start it off. So I think, you know, as adult, if you're an adult child and you know your parent best, right? So I think taking note of where they've been, what they were like. you know, maybe a few years ago, how they are, and then how they are now. And if you're seeing significant changes, where, you know, she doesn't, she or he doesn't want to talk that much. They're not going out as much as they once did. That they are, you know, just being... a little different than what they used to be, those are some signs that change is happening. And of course, as we age, our habits may change a little bit and our likes and dislikes might change a little bit. But you really have to say to yourself, i'm seeing a little bit of a change but then maybe talking to your mom and dad or aunt and uncle and saying hey are you feeling okay and just checking in um and they may say yeah i'm fine i'm just you know not feeling well today i have pain in my back um i'm just not wanting to go out or in fact yeah i'm i've just been feeling a little bit down lately that you know you can you can do to help, you know, in that situation. But, but really the key really with a lot of this is communication. Right. Let's talk about it and, and let them know that you're thinking of them and that you want to be there. I was going to say, thank you. That got me thinking. I think it's wise for the adult children to go online or, you know, look up, dementia cognitive decline normal aging get your information that way to see the difference and i think over the years what i have learned through alzheimer's and things like that was when you start having issues with numbers whether it's the clock you know i've had stories of people going to the doctor's office at two o'clock and their appointment was at four o'clock Interesting. Those kind of things. Or mom wrote a check for twelve hundred dollars and it was just supposed to be for one hundred and twenty dollars. Right. Or it's the calendar. Yeah, I guess same with the doctor's office. You know, she thought it was this day and it's really that day. And a lot of people who have that kind of decline, they're going to argue about it. Yeah. They're going to like, no, you're wrong. Or the doctor, I've heard stories. That receptionist at the doctor's office was wrong. I was really supposed to have that, you know, and it wasn't. So that to me is kind of one of those things. If anything with time and money and anything with numbers, that's where people start having difficulty. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. one thing to that as well would be that dementia is not a normal part of aging. That can be like a misconception that people have of like, oh, you know, it's just, you know, aging and it's, you know, that's not, that's not necessarily supposed to happen. Like, of course, like, you know, there's things slow down as you age, but there's a distinct difference between going down and, you know, going through the stages of dementia or Alzheimer's. Absolutely. All right, I'm going to wrap up with one last audience question and then my final question. So this is actually good because we didn't really get to touch on like this part of it, but what should someone ask their parents about their finances, legal documents and, you know, like goals of care? This person doesn't even know where to start. So maybe like the more logistical side of things of like, you know, Is there a will? What is, who's going to be POA? What do I need to know about your life in order to be able to make these decisions if I ever have to one day? Did you say why should they ask or should they ask? What should I ask my parents about their finances, healthcare wishes, and legal documents? All of the above. You know, no, I mean, you need to, I think finances will probably be the last part we see older adults, you know, sharing and you should, if your power of attorney, but I've seen it happen where people appoint children or friends, um, power of attorney and they never knew it. You know what I mean? So you, again, let's get people, let's get families talking. um so that would be something you need to know as i've been saying earlier it's like you want to be the best advocate you can and you need to know if you're the one called upon to do it um i think it's okay and necessary the other thing it's like do you have a long-term care insurance policy over the years like the adult children don't know and sometimes the parents don't know or they think they might or they don't know and they don't know what it says and Right. A little bit of a goldmine to help, you know, pay for some of the costs of care. Yeah. It's okay at any time to be asking, you know, mom and dad, I want to do the best I can for you, but I kind of need to know those things. Yeah. Absolutely. Tell me what you want me to know now. And, you know, I don't need to know how much money you've got in the bank because sometimes that's a sensitive thing for people to tell. But, It's so important to know those things. Absolutely. Any thoughts to add there, Ms. Sharon? Where those documents are. Yeah, I mean, I think it's everything that Marianne said is absolutely right. And I think that, you know, getting things like... Oh, no. Lost you, ladies. Can you guys hear me? All right. Again, it's not a podcast if we don't have some sort of technical difficulties. testing Sharon Marianne. Oh. Well, we're going to be patient and give them maybe one minute to see if we can reconnect. You never know. Maybe they'll be able to come back and wrap up the podcast. Thank you everyone for all the thoughtful questions today. I think the conversation was really, really insightful and amazing and definitely gets me thinking about how to plan for the future regarding my own parents. And then of course myself, whenever I get to that age or stage in my life. Huh. Let's see if I can get in touch with them. Well, we will wait for thirty more seconds. And if they come back, then that's fabulous. And if not, then Sharon and Marianne are going to go ahead and respond to the last questions in the comments of the episode here so that we could get the final answer and make sure that we have all of our eggs in a row. And then ducks in a row it's definitely not x in a row oh my goodness um and yeah we'll just kind of go from there but I appreciate each and every single one of you for being on today um this has been this has been such an insightful conversation for me um and I hope the same for you I hope that everyone has oh Hello. Sorry, something technical happened. Yeah, it sure did. It's no worries at all. I'm glad to have you back. I was just deciding what to do. Hey, Marianne. We're here. Yay. Did you guys have any finishing thoughts on that last question? Oh, sorry. You want to come back? I'm right here. Okay. So I'm sorry about that. I guess technical difficulties are real. And honestly, I'm not going to lie to you. This happens probably more than I'd like to admit, about half the time. So it is what it is. Sometimes you just got to go with the flow of it. But I'm glad this is again. We're here. Can you remind me of the question again, just because... Yes, it was, what should I ask my parents about their finances, healthcare, which is in legal documents? And you were just wrapping up saying where to find them. Yeah, so... You know, I think it really is important to say to your parents, do you have an advanced directive? Do you have those documents in place? Because I'll tell you, I have met with more adults, older adults that say they don't. versus those that do right and so it's really important to to make sure that those are taken care of and that that is um part of their plan and a good thing to do um for um to keep those documents and to help you get organized with those documents I used to teach a class with older adults to help prepare for these kinds of things. And there's something called a knock box, which is a organization system and a file um that helps you with those different pieces um of paper that is really important long-term care insurance advanced directives passwords um all the important documents that you really need in one place and so that's really um helps can help that conversation say hey mom and dad i got this I got this, you know, knockbox and this is how we're going to start that conversation. Yeah. I love that. That's, that's really, really good. And a knockbox. I like that name for it as well. So just to wrap everything up with a pretty bow. Are there any, what's the one takeaway? If someone is just has like two to three minutes to listen to this entire podcast, what do you want them to walk away from this conversation with? Communication, communication, communication. That is really my mantra. I really feel that it is really important to be open, be honest, and to talk. Because without that, there's too many unknowns. And then those unknowns turn into a lot of problems later on for the loved one that is left. So that's my takeaway. Absolutely. What do you got for us, Marianne? I'm going to say to the adult children, your parents, parent, parents do need your help. They do. They're going to maybe tell you they don't, but they do. or they will in the near future and i'm going to put a different spin on this you as the adult child need some help yeah you as the family caregiver need some help and i want to kind of promote self-care because none of us can do it all So while you're taking care of your parent, you've got to figure out how to take care of yourself. And you've got to have that self-care because it's a lot on the plates of all of us sandwich generation. Absolutely. Help ask for it and accept it. I formalized it. Literally have the formula down. That's perfect. Well, I appreciate all of the thoughtfulness that went in to give it to each and every single one of the responses that you gave. Thank you. And I really, really hope that this was as fun of a conversation for you as it was for me. Absolutely. It was wonderful. Yep. Well, thanks so much for being here and to everyone at home. I hope you have a wonderful, wonderful Thanksgiving. Get started on those conversations. Again, remember, communicate, communicate, communicate. And we are all in this together and you're not alone. We appreciate you for being here and hope that everyone has a very happy holidays. And for one more time, because it can't be said enough, a very happy National Family Caregivers Month. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you for doing this. Yes. Well, thank you guys for being here. Much appreciated. Bye.